I don't know if you guys have been following events, but things are getting a little crazy. I'm late to the party myself, as I've had my head buried in an assignment.
Highlights include:
Nicholl now only allowing entry via The Black List or via various schools (details unclear)
WeScreenPlay, ScreenCraft, The Script Lab, and Launch Pad shut down
Coverfly X shut down.
Talk of Coverfly itself potentially shutting down (last I read, it's staying up)
The reaction out there is not good, especially on Reddit's r/screenwriting, where you'd think the only opportunities out there were Black List, Nicholl, and Coverfly.
Personally, I think it's time to call it a day with all this. Coverage can all too easily be AI-generated now. There was really only one competition worth caring about, and now its credentials are questionable.
You throw in the fact most pitching services are paying the industry member a cut to be pitched to, and it's all pretty dire.
I'll be glad to see it all go. I feel that a lot of it is basically gambling. Although, it does make me wonder where people will turn.
agree..I became friends with a few of the producers on several sites and the utter political circle jerk with no actual intent to ever produce anything was beyond the pale while they just took money in, hand over fist....that people roll trhough life with that kind of hustle as their agenda and actually take a gander in a mirror without upchucking is beyond my understanding...but it's their own karma to eat...
Out of interest, did you feel the bios posted about them when selling pitches were massively exaggerated?
big time man..the producer i referenced, all the films they touted he was a producer on, big films, he was more an office PA attached to a low-level producer and they gave him an associate producer credit....and he straight up told me that he did the stage 32 thing cause he got a portion of the high ass payment they charged me....and don't get me started on the blacklist, same type of shit....and don't know if they are stilld oing it but at one point they were saying any kind of deal made through their site they would get producer cut and procducer cut if a film came from it...the most ridiculous shit I'd ever heard especially when they were charging people for the service already....it was delusional and disgusting and to me was asking for a law suit to get thrown their way....but that was years ago and never been back..
I learned of the Nicholls news last week, and yeah, the it hasn't been received well; I understand why. I've never had much luck with The Black List, but I'll keep an open-mind about its partnership with Nicholl. As you infer, CJ, this does legitimately call Nicholl's credentials into question now though. It wouldn't suprise me if the Nicholls was in name only in five years and will become mostly a Black List competition.
I'd heard for years that Nicholls was essentially run like a mom-and-pop shop and was always operating in the red. If true, I'm guessing this along with the L.A. fires last year made everything come to a head.
As far as the other competitions: good riddance, and hopefully more will follow. I hesitate reveling in the downfall of others, but for decades now (literally) 99% of these contests ranged from predatory to useless, and were only fueled by anecdotal evidence of success that proved to be the exception to the rule and certainly not the rule itself.
Lastly, as you mention, CJ: A.I. will probably destroy the coverage and contest industries. It's free, can be used countless times, and in the end is, honestly, as good, if not better, than human-generated coverage and notes.
JD - Yes, that's been my experience too. I was brought in to rewrite a script that was really bad, and when I searched the writer's name, they were on a pitching site being touted as a high-level producer looking for scripts. The reality was they worked in a church kitchen, were an assistant to an actor on the side, and couldn't get their own stuff made.
I haven't heard that regarding the Black List. It is very expensive.
Paul—Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. I'm happy to see it all die off. I think it will be the only thing stopping writers from pushing competitions as a means to break in. I saw a post on r/screenwriting only the other day that advised someone to enter competitions, buy evaluations, and pay for coverage. The system just keeps feeding itself, and I feel the only way to stop the loop is to shut the casino doors.
It's so weird to see Nicholl and Black List in cahoots these days. I remember a time, when BL launched, St Franklin and the previous Nicholl boss having it out on a forum. It was all very civil, and they both made good arguments, but they had very different views on how to identify good scripts. The Nicholl system, in my opinion, was an infinitely better methodology that focused on positive opinions rather than taking an average. To potentially change that is taking the jam out of the donut for me. That's what gave Nicholl its value.
It's most likely that Nicholl and the Black List will become synonymous, tying both brands together and muddying the waters either further between the BL website, the annual Black List, and Nicholl itself. The marketing power there will be phenomenal and that's before even considering all those posts and comments out there spanning back over a decade that advise entering Nicholl above all else.
People on Reddit are saying the platforms favour different types of scripts but I think they are seeing patterns they want to see there.
What's wierd is nobody is asking about or suggesting alternatives. No mentions of Simply Scripts, InkTip, Spec Scout, Script Hop, Script Revolution, Stage 32, ISA, or any other sites known to help writers break in and all coming in a different cost points with different approaches aimed at different markets.
Perhaps this news is really just highlighting what a bubble r/screenwriting has become, which is concerning given it's probably the biggest screenwriting community out there.
Greatings y'all. I'm trying to view the implosion positively. I'm here as the result of Coverfly X shutting down. I realize that I've been using it as a crutch and placebo in place of actual progress. Now I need to drill down and do a professional job before submitting somewhere.
I'm glad to be here regaurdless.
Good to have you here, Michael.
The Writing Services bubble has been due for a correction for a while now. No market can continue expanding forever. Still a lucrative one for providers though so it will continue to flourish for as long as there is an ongoing supply of new writing aspirants.
Great points, Michael and Richard.
Michael, to your point: I still lurk about on some of these screenwriting forums, and yes, many writers seem to be spending more time on there asking and answering, ultimately, inconsequential questions. I've done it myself.
Richard: Yes, an entire cottage industry formed around taking as much money from young and/or aspiring screenwriters as it could. It'd be impossible for me to calculate how much money I wasted on useless coverage services and screenplay competitions over the years, and if I could, I'd probably be too embarrassed to tell you the amount.
Also, to clarify: A.I. will probably destroy the coverage service sub-industry, if it hasn't already. The coverage it produces is almost impossible for them to compete with, but the contest racket will still be around for awhile.
My bold prediction: I wouldn't be surprised if one day there's a ChatGPT Screenplay Competition. No human readers needed, and one person working with the A.I. could probably read, synopsize, review and score dozens of scripts per day, if not more. Once it became proficient, they could probably do a monthly contest.
We just need to be done with this concept of competitions and evaluations. It's little more than gambling and naval gazing. People just want to be ranked and validated, but you simply cannot do that with subjective material. This idea that you should just keep paying and paying, hoping that you align with a reader, and butchering your script in the process to try and up the odds is madness. Common madness, but madness none-the-less.
All people need to do is learn the craft, hone their voice, write proficient scripts, network until they find alignment, and build out from there.
For those who listen to the Scriptnotes podcast, they talked about the Nicholls news at length this week. Somewhat as expected, the guys were skeptical about this, especially Crag, of course, who was way more than skeptical. It sounds like all these other platforms will be the gatekeepers (talk about a thankless job) and the Nicholls' folks will read the "top" 500 or 1000 or whatever. But, all this is good news for the contests left who want to fill the void. One site in particular I'm sure has been salivating ever since this news was released.
John and Craig always furrow their brows and say they are skeptical, but they are directly linked to the popularity of these brands in the first place. They have spoken in length about the Black List and have had Franklin on multiple times, but have given next to no time for other platforms such as this one and basically dismissed anything other than Nicholl and BL. They've funnelled people toward only two routes to breaking in, and now they're surprised and concerned they've merged?
Totally get where you're coming from, CJ. They unexpectedly returned to the Austin Film Festival last year after TRASHING it (and rightfully so) after the 2022 festival and not attending in 2023. Who knows the story behind that.
John has a long history with Sundance and they talked about that also due to the news that Sundance has left Park City (which was surprising to me as I thought they were bluffing). The Sundance labs and institutes are essentially glorified contests themselves, with the prestige of the old Nicholls (wow, my first time referring to them in the past tense), but they never seemed as popular as Austin or Nicholls, at least in my world.
i think it is spurious to be honest for anyone to break in by sharing scripts...most people that i know who have gotten a foot in the door is by they themselves finding funding for a small budgeted feature script of theirs and getting it shot and out....and that led to a slightly bigger opportunity, rinse and repeat...
Paul - That's interesting about the labs. There's a bit in Shooting From the Hip, an early biography about Tarantino, which talks about him being sent there and getting his work trashed. Only Terry Gilliam had anything good to say about his directing.
The mistake John, Craig, and everyone else made was making it about competitions vs other competitions, when really the criticism should have been extended to competitions as a whole. Nicholl had its time within a world that was very different. It made sense. However, just because something is less worse than the next thing, it does not make it good or effective.
r/screenwriting is currently in a crisis because anything that isn't Black List/Nicholl has been dismissed and discredited. That community genuinely believes there are no other respectable routes in, and now the beasts it's created have merged. They created their own gatekeeper.
JD - Ultimately, it's my belief that networking is still everything, and people need to stop focusing on the tiny tip of the iceberg (Hollywood studios). Script Revolution is supposed to be something people have in the background that's open to all tiers of the global filmmaking world. It's obvious that there's this cult-like feedback loop convincing screenwriters that they are going to have their Cinderella moment - it's just a case of paying for the next read. I've spoken before that Script Revolution pays for being humble about career building. Realism is now considered toxic in the screenwriting world, along with seeing it as an art form. The online community is so utterly lost.
What are your thoughts about or experiences of The Interdependent Studio? It seems to be a virtual studio called The Lot where you can offer your services as a scriptwriter, director, or producer. (unpaid) and create equity in a movie, chosen by the members, if it's made.
I think!
Interdependent are banned from here, despite trying to register under numerous accounts. There was a warning about them in the newsletter a few years back.
"Realism is now considered toxic in the screenwriting world,..." No truer a statement has ever been made. I have writer-friends who've gone completely 'round the bend. And I'm talking folks in their 50s and 60s who've been at this for decades. They're still all in on the delusions, if not more so now, searching every bit of the internet for anecdotal evidence that supports any "overnight success" story.