Okay, so some of you have asked me to implement a forum for a few years now and I've always said no. I've said that it takes too much time to manage and writers can often be too confrontational. Well, I told myself for years that I'd never build this site either and here we are LOL!
Basically, two things have caused me to change my mind and give this a try. Firstly, I've watched Reddit's r/screenwriting slowly descend into what feels like a rolling showcase of paid services. It's gotten really scary. It's just constant talk about using feedback companies and entering competitions. Secondly, I know many of you are refugees from the Stage 32 screenwriting lounge where I agree the performance by some of the moderators has been less than stela.
I'm sorry the forums here are lacking in features like email notifications but I have the basics up and running. Let's see how things go. If this turns out to be nothing but a wasteland or becomes overrun with heated debates, we can at least say we tried. If it turns into something highly valuable, I'll continue to pour development time into it.
Topic subscriptions should now be working.
ooh.. shin...forumy! Thanks for setting this up!
LOL! You're more than welcome, my friend.
This is great! Thanks for implementing it, CJ.
As someone who's never actually gotten into Reddit much (while thinking they *should*), I really appreciate this new function!
I'm a total Reddit addict. It's an amazing site. I rarely venture in the screenwriting sub though but that's mainly because of the anonymous nature of the platform. I wasted years of my development giving people the benefit of the doubt and taking their advice (often very harsh) to heart. Hopefully we can build something with more integrity and kindness here.
I used to browse Reddit (didn't post) but much of what I was doing was looking for stories/comments to fuel my self-righteous perpetual outrage machine so quit going. I manage to do that plenty enough without dumping the fuel on myself. lol (Not implying this is anyone else's motivation just breeze-shooting)
LOL. I recently quit most social media for the same reasons.
I read a study one time that said the most shared items were either "cute" or "what made you mad"... so a bunny telling you your favored Prime Minister was trash would probably be ideal internet optimization. lol
LMAO!
Man, preaching to the choir here. There is such an unearned sense of authority over there, but it all falls apart when you start to notice only the 'worst' screenplays get lots of feedback. As soon as something is even 'middle of the road' it is beyond the help of all but a tiny fraction of that community and ignored. Got some good notes there over the years but the bad ones far outnumbered them unfortunately. I stopped going completely when it became obvious people were paying for votes or otherwise manipulating the rankings and the mods weren't going to do anything about it.
So I guess that was a long winded way of saying thanks for setting this up!!
You're more than welcome, Connor. Reddit moderation in general is a real concern of mine since the big reveal that around a dozen people have taken control of most of the popular subs. Then there was the time r/screenwriting blatantly sold out to a corporation and lost a lot of valuable posters. What I do find frustrating is that individuals can post complete lies about me and this platform and reporting their posts results in nothing. That and the way all the advice in the sidebar pushes people toward certain paid services while slamming other platforms as spam and leaving various free options out. That just doesn't feel right to me or the interests of users. I also can't really trust a validation system which uses anonymous accounts with tags added by other anonymous users. How am I supposed to believe someone is a WGA writer or studio exec simply because one mysterious account has been tagged by another. This is in an industry with an unusual and highly valuable way to validate someone - you stick their name in IMDb and you're 99% of the way there.
Who knows. Maybe it's just a forum thing or a writer thing. If this place becomes full of anonymous snarks telling people using "we see" will destroy their chances in Hollywood which pushing people to buy competition entries and script evaluations, I'll have to close it down.
I can imagine that's pretty frustrating. I know that Franklin guy is forced to show up there now and then to defend The Blacklist from people claiming it's a scam, or they don't know what they're talking about, etc etc. Short of that I guess there isn't much you can do, but who has the time? People will believe what they want to believe - if someone is salty about their low scores of course they're going to happily agree when someone else calls it a scam because it makes them feel better. That or they don't want to pay for an expensive service so anyone that says the service isn't worth it just plays into what they were hoping to hear. Same goes for this site I assume. People don't immediately get the downloads and favourites they were expecting and voila, you're a scam now.
As for the anonymity, it's absolutely a bit sketchy. Though I will say, one anonymous poster who was tagged did offer me advice over the course of many months and I did finally learn after a while he was in fact a pretty reputable and experienced working writer. So they are there lurking about, or at least they were at some point.
Also, I just took a quick glance over there and apparently r/screenwriting has just recently entered the top 500 most subscribed subs on reddit... so there's that I guess.
Yeah, and it's also a very organic community. It can feel completely different every six months with the massive churn in active users and the moderator team.
I've spent the past eight years or so watching Franklin having to jump in and defend accusations against the Black List. It can get pretty heated. I'm really proud that, after four years and over 7,000 members, I've not had to do that.
There's literally only one person I know of out there claiming this site is full of scams and I know exactly who he is. He's a pedantic consultant who posts regularly on Stage 32 who simply doesn't like my opinions on some matters and the fact I've got a produced movie under my belt. Still, the damage he's doing on Reddit is enough to be a concern. I'm also not the only person/platform that he's targeting. There's a few people he's gone after and we all know who he is. The crazy thing is, he was encouraging people to delete their Script Revolution accounts while he himself had a profile and script listed on here.
That entire last paragraph is a wild ride. As my grandpa says, it takes all kinds I guess.
CJ - When I first joined screenwriting forum(s) I admit to being a little enamored by mysterious profiles with a lot to say on everything. Not as much at the moment.
I'm kinda curious what "scams" this site could even be running... since at core it's a hosting service and the scripts are ya'know... hosted. Don't go buying any fake noses or twirling mustaches with my $5 this month!
actually I noticed that the forum smilies have stopped working (at least on my end). Scams on scams!
LOL! CJ Walley will steal your emoticons via Script Revolution and use them for his own emotional support!
So, if you check out this thread on Reddit that appeared a couple of months ago, you'll see what I mean; https://www.reddit.com/r/Screenwriting/comments/hij7qf/a_possible_scam/
Someone who's allegedly a studio executive and produced writer jumps in early and confirms there's no scam at hand, it's just a crummy deal. I had a few writers reach out to me asking about it at the time. I told them the same. It's something that's happening a lot from India, China, and Russia at the moment. They have agents out there trying to acquire western material to translate and produce domestically. Some of them do it via offices in LA and can actually make some reasonable offers. As ever, it's not my place to judge. Script Revolution is a venue. If I know of a scam, I'll protect the community. If a deal is just a poor one, I'm not going to get involved. One person's trash is another person's treasure. It's normal to start getting bad offers as you get more exposure and they never really stop, they just get more sophisticated looking as you advance your career. Funny money is everywhere and there's a lot of people offering jam tomorrow.
But if you scroll down the thread, you'll find this Tone_Scribe account claiming it is a scam. When it's proved otherwise and other threads mention real scams ask for money upfront, he then switches gears and starts claiming there's multiple scams with similar schemes where people are asking for money. He also claims I ignore emails and are general absent. Running Script Revolution is a 24/7 365 job. I've gotten out of bed in the early hours many times to deal with things and spend a lot of time giving members advice privately. I'm never not working on this site.
What's frustrating is I know who this guy is. He's a "consultant" based in NYC with one IMDb writing credit for a short film he wrote and directed two years ago with fewer than ten views on YouTube. I don't want to name and shame but I can easily prove all this. He's basically fallen out with everyone on Stage 32 and tours Reddit making attacks on them and anything they are associated with. His beef with me stems from my views on low-rent screenwriting consultants and people's obsession with superficial issues. I don't think having a few typos in a script is a big issue. He thinks it's a deal breaker. We've also had a little communication on here where I responded to a couple of questions regarding if his script was appearing in listings - it was. This is the second Reddit account he's had to setup that I know of. It seems the previous one has been deleted which doesn't surprise me as he was posting some really gross stuff on that when trolling people.
I am being very sensitive. First accusation I've seen like this in four years. It's the principle that gets to me. By attacking the image of Script Revolution, he's attacking the community and everyone's potential prospects as a whole.
The irony is of course that I warn people about low-rent screenwriting consultants because they often lack integrity and then one of them goes and does this.
Oh. I thought he meant you were scamming, not that someone was messaging a "scam" (that didn't even look like a scam) via your site. Upon reflection I think my e-mail service provider probably owes me millions of dollars in recompense.
Of course if someone was running some pyramid scheme or something on your site and you found out about it you'd want to get rid of em'... and knowing the time you spend helping/warning other writers I'm sure you'd be right on that if it hypothetically occurred.
Indeed, there is absolutely no incentive for me to allow scams to exist on Script Revolution. I'd be allowing both the site and my own professional reputation to fall into disrepute.
Just discovered this forum! Wonderful! Speaking of THE BLACK LIST, I used it when I was first shopping scripts around and it didn't take long for me to realize that, for the level I was on, it was a waste of time and money. You can't get noticed unless you get a review at an additional $75. - and the reviews were pretty thin and not very helpful. But they got you onto the various lists. Nothing happened. Ever. Some unknown names downloaded, but I didn't know who and never heard from them. I was lucky to eventually find an excellent script coverage service, and I learned so much from their notes and script mark-ups, then started using Script Rev, and Inktip with far better results than Blacklist. I've not been on Reddit except to look at it once. I "think" I know the "consultant" you are you talking about, CJ! He keeps coming back - like weeds. And Connor - I read one of your scripts a while back. Good stuff!
Good to see you here, Jerry, and congrats again on your recent successes - so many now I'm starting to lose count.
The Black List is sadly built on a flawed model because they chose to go with a numeric scoring system rather than a PCR process. The system gives equal weight to someone hating a script as it does to someone loving a script. Subjective material doesn't work like that and Hollywood history has shown over and over that an army of people disliking something is both easy to build and pretty much irrelevant in the big scheme of things. Every great movie ever pitched went down like a lead balloon with the majority of decision makers and many had their doubters right down to release. What matters is finding fans and building on those fans. That's why you can only upvote on Script Revolution.
Do you think the same about The Red List from Coverfly. I was surprised this morning when I found out one of my scripts made it to the list for September.
You're preachin' to the choir Jerry, but I'm stoked to hear you found success elsewhere (including right here!)
That's really nice of you to say, I appreciate the kind words!! I believe it was Old Virginia you read, right? It has since gone through a few revisions but it's a real pleasure to hear you enjoyed that original draft. I'd like to return the favour and read something of yours! Is there any project in particular you think I should read? If nothing comes to mind I'll just pick one at random of course!
Thank you, CJ! I've had great luck with Script Revolution - it's an incredible site you've created. I don't know how you do it AND write scripts at the same time. The next time I visit London I will buy you a pint or four!
Connor , YES it was OLD VIRGINIA . I'll check out the revision - do you have the most recent posted? If you would like to read one of mine, that would be great!
Marven, it's years since I've taken a look at Coverfly but I see them everywhere now. The key issues when they started were two fold;
Firstly, there's just such little integrity to screenwriting competitions in general. You may as well be looking for the next top supermodel via small town pageants. Sites like FilmFreeWay have made it so pretty much anyone can set one up and answer to nobody. I've seen screenwriting competitions listed on there where every entry gets am award on a laurel. I used to allow writers here to submit any screenwriting competition win and that made me realise just how many there were out there dishing out prestigious sounding wins to pretty much everybody who entered. That's where I made the tough choice to cut every back to Prestigious Awards only.
Secondly, CoverFly has this conflict of interest that's really hard to ignore. They are owned by Red Ampersand who in turn own ScreenCraft, WeScreenplay, TheScriptLab, and The Tracking Board. Three of those four operations run their own screenwriting competitions. The question is, how do you trust their integrity not to bolster their brands and chase the bottom line? Businesses by their nature chase profit.
For what it's worth, I have spoken to Scot Lawrie and he's a really nice guy who strongly believes in what he's created. I know they've been trying to address these issues and it seems their customers are happy and motivated. There's also this post by John Rhodes who owns Red Ampersand (from Reddit).
He's commendably transparent that even he himself has concerns about the CoverFly score being a reductive way of ranking screenplays.
This is kind of the crazy thing you sometimes see with stuff like this. Franklin Leonard has been pretty open about the issue of polarisation on the Black List and the futility in trying to tackle that too.
The bottom line is you cannot score and rank the subjective. Every artist knows that so we're left with this ongoing conundrum.
I look forward to that drink, Jerry, but you're forgetting one thing - I produce as well :P
I didn't know you produced! Holy cow! Okay, now I'm even more impressed. At some point you might need to get a webmaster! That's a ton of work.
Thanks for the views from everyone about script competitions. I have seen and learned much from them in 2020. Surprisingly I have found some advantages from a few of the good ones. I agree with you many are just a scam but for an unknown writer like me it did give me some access to contacts that I may not have gotten myself. For me script writing is mostly a therapeutic hobby. It has been fun this year to find others that like my scripts. Especially when there isn't a contest or a family read. Your site and advice you give freely has helped me huge in helping me take my ideas and make them a tangible craft. Hopeful some day they will turn into the works of art I know they can be.
That's cool, Marvin. Write for your own happiness first and, if you can afford to take the punt, throw them at some competitions. I've no issue with that. It's when people think it's a career plan and that winning a competition is going to make things happen that bug me.
Cool, I didn't know this was here until just now. Woot!
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