What's your feeling on contests and coverage?

Hi Joseph. You know a lot about them. You work/read for them?

Nope, took that from their website. I entered that one, Scriptapalooza, and will be entering the Nicholls competition end of the month. Just know that like anything in life, gotta be interested in something in order to continue. No different when reading a screenplay. why would any reader want to continue if your not interested in a story 10-20 minutes in?

So true... well said. All the best with Nicholls

I like to send my work out for coverage--I don't have anywhere else to get feedback, and I've had mostly good feedback and gotten two or three "consider"s, but it is expensive. This year, I entered The Nicholl, the Page, and Austin Film Festival (first time entering anything) and paid extra for the coverage. I'll let you know how it goes.

As for coverage, it does appear that some companies try to bait the writer into paying for more coverage. One, for example, gave my script a score that was two points too low to break into their industry list. But when I looked at the evaluation grid, the reader had given me a mediocre score on...formatting! Formatting is not subjective, and I'm positive that my formatting is very good--close to perfect. I use FD, and I'm just not sloppy. Formatting is the easy part. If I had been scored higher on that one aspect of the script, it would have bumped me over the threshold. The organization says that scores usually go up after more than one evaluation. So I politely wrote to them about my issue, but no answer back. So if I want a higher score, I will have to pay for another round of coverage. And I might do it. I need the creds.

You've pretty much hit the nail-on-the-head.  All of these so called festivals/competitions are, first and foremost, businesses and in order to be profitable (to stay in business), they must generate income, so sure they are gonna bait (encourage) you into throwing more money their way.  There are a very few that have  built themselves up to being worthy (maybe half a dozen) but the rest of 'em are nothing more than black holes designed to suck up dreamer's ransom while providing false hope.

I recently received script coverage from Stage 32. I can't speak for their contests, I don't have experience with that. I've been researching and considering coverage for one feature script, so it was on my list anyway, as a, maybe someday. I don't have much interest in coverage for other scripts, just this one. Well, I got lucky, won a discount code for Stage 32 script coverage, and suddenly someday became now. Discount code came with a deadline. So I decided to go for it.

It's the most honest and professional feedback I've ever received. Did I get high marks? No lol. I took a risk, my choice, and no regrets. The script isn't anywhere close to ready for submissions so I fully expected the worst. I'm pleasantly surprised. A lot of useful recommendations and suggestions. Straight to the point yet respectful.

Anyway, I'm on break right now and I thought others might find it good to know. From my experience, Stage 32 coverage, worth it.

Thanks Lily.  I just recently joined Stage 32.  Total madhouse.  I just recently attended a 90" webinar on film distribution.  Best $40 I ever spent.  Lots of sharks out there too.  I was telling a fellow Rockstar that I had a guy offer to read my script, give me feedback and show it to all his executive producer pals for the low, low price of $1,200. Such a deal!

Tony, heh, yeah a lot of sharks out there. I joined Stage 32 about 3 years ago then just didn't bother for a while. It's two sites in one, free or paid, and it wasn't clear to me. At first, I was baffled. Like you said, madhouse. Anything free does tend to attract hard-hitting sharks. I ran into a few myself. One guy private messaged me repeatedly, acting like a pimp, offering to do me a favor. No, just no. Stage 32 services however are run by professionals, but, not free. For price comparison, based on my research, good service for the price. Of course, it all depends on the script and your goals.

Meantime, try not to getting eaten by sharks.

Funny, as we discuss this here on this thread, I was approached by another writer, someone new to Script Revolution, who was interested in my work. Turns out we live in the same state, have a lot in common when it comes to our hobbies, and this person is just starting out with their screenwriting journey. I learned that they saw an ad for OpenGate Entertainment and enrolled with the promise of getting them started on this journey and putting them in touch with industry people. I've had no experience with OpenGate, nor have I heard of it before. I did some digging and in my findings, it turns out they may be another shark in the water. This new contact/friend of mine spent $1500 so he could put his idea on paper in the proper format with the proper story beats. They had him put together a treatment, a beat sheet, a pitch deck, and the usual synopsis and logline. Making it all sound legit, they failed to show this person the nuts and bolts of what really makes a screenplay work. 

After reading the draft they approved and told him was okay, I discovered formatting issues with the first slug line! Master scene headings had some crazy formatting choices, characters weren't properly introduced, and the first page dedicated entirely to a character looking at a magazine. Way too much fluff! It was nuts! But OpenGate approved this and said they'd send it off to a list of industry contacts and encouraged him to enter contests. 

I politely told him that he shouldn't deal with them any longer and seek out assistance from other resources online and the communities out there with people willing to help--and read, read, read! 

I have had some good success here on Script Revolution and will continue to support CJ. Like many, I have my material parked at other sites as well and occasionally interact with individuals on those sites. I find Script Revolution to be the best, however. I'll still enter the occasional contest, or even pay for coverage when I get the urge to do so. I do find that the industry coverage at Stage 32 is the best and I do a decent job of vetting my choice and learning their backgrounds before submitting. If you have a bit of spare change and can afford to do this, sometimes it can be helpful. Honestly, though, it is just feedback and rarely lands you a gig. In fact, despite having great results in both areas, it wasn't coverage, pitching, or a contest where I got my option. It was right here.

Preach to me Brother Gary, Preach.  I love it here too.  It reminds me of Hemingway and his pals discussing "what ever."  I'm also a newbie.  I'm in this world on a fluke.  My wife had been bugging me to work on Chicago Fire.  I finally relented.  An extra.  I also estimate for construction and paint (makes me sick, I hate it, like chewing glass).  So between takes I started to estimate costs...power, salaries of background personnel, equipment.  The studio was spending excess of $100,000 daily.  Then I found out what one of the actors got paid per episode...Said to myself "I can do that"

Just like  a heroin dealer to an addict.  My very 1st gig , between the shoot and residuals, $4,000 for 3 1/2 hours of work.  So there I was.  In one hand a paint brush (make me puke), a world of tradesmen, beer and pot bellies and it would take me 100 hours to make that $4,000 or...Acting, beautiful people, Inside work.  Been in the entertainment business ever since.  With back of my hand to my forehead looking off in the distance, "I'll just have to endure".

Tony (with a big smile on my face)

That's great, Tony! Glad to hear you're living the dream. Thank you for your service, as well. My dad is a retired battalion chief, so know the rigors of the job well. Keep writing, keep developing your skill for the craft and by all means, read! Then read some more! Don't be afraid to experiment and soon you'll find your voice.

Cheers, brother!
 

The writer that paid $1500 should be given a refund. More effective than the BBB, report it to your state's attorney general. I had to do it once. All I had to do was fill out a one-page form.

Some wonderful comments here, guys. This is really what I wanted when I opened up a forum. Nice healthy, productive conversation.

There are just so many sharks out there now. We seem to have moved into a "contrepreneur economy" with so many get-rich-quick schemes opening up in every industry.

Yeah, good discussion. What might complicate the situation a bit more is that the contests that are moving writers' careers seem to be expanding some. Only recently you'd hear the industry folk saying it was only Nicholl that mattered or maybe Nicholl and Austin or maybe add Big Break, etc. But now there is real representation from Hollywood in a lot of contests and it's opening doors. FYI I've had good luck with the feedback from Stage 32 (I use their "premium service" because I get to pick the actual industry peep who'll provide me feedback, and perhaps there's something about not hiding behind the anonymity of "reader" that causes people to do their due diligence as readers). One of them from Energy Entertainment encouraged me to submit to a lot of contests.

When I first started pursuing creative writing back in 2004, I researched the crap out of everything I could find. I read articles, books, websites, joined groups for creatives of all kinds not just writing, chatted with people, sent emails. It's been a long learning process for me. When I decided to pursue screenwriting in 2018, I was disappointed to find how much BS and scams are exactly the same. In many cases, word for word. It all amounts to the same thing. Give us your money and we'll make you a star. A lie of course.

Publishing, never pay to get published. Music, never pay to play. Screenwriting, never pay to get produced. Reason? Because the creative never gets anything back except financial loss and heartbreak. Those who have fallen for scamming sharks tend to be the most defensive. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Personally, I have no problem with financial investments for my own writing development, within reason. But, it's heartbreaking to continue reading how sharks take advantage of creatives, like the writer Gary mentioned. I'm so grateful for Script Revolution. It's such a relief to chat with people willing to have healthy, informed discussions. I love you guys.

Enjoyed this thread...and everybody giving a subjective opinion (regardless of whether it is framed as objective or not).  Meritocracy seems to be extremely difficult to achieve, and the appearance of achieving such in it's purest state is nonsense.  I think of other industries where contests take place, and while trying to keep an open mind, I perceive them as being a machine... a hungry, hungry machine.

 IMO - Contests are fine,  There are many reputable ones (Nicholls, Austin, PAGE, Final Draft, etc.). I personally think you always have a better chance in contests that award prizes by genre. You should be strategic in the ones you enter. Nicholls by way of example really favors diversity themed dramas and if you are submitting a screwball comedy or horror, you are probably wasting your money. Conversely, any placement in Nicholls seems to be gold. I received more agent queries from a quarter-finalist placement there than I did with higher placements in other competitions.

If you enter a lot of contests, I do recommend signing up to Coverfly. It is free and they keep a score related to all of your competition placements. They create "red lists" for high-scoring scripts. I have had two in their top ten and received at least a dozen inquiries and one option directly from being on those lists. 

I would NEVER buy notes for coverage from a contest. Just under the general principle of why would you buy notes/coverage from anyone that you can't specifically vouch for their credentials. To me, it's money in the toilet. If you want notes/coverage - there are tons of places you can go to where you know the qualifications of the individual buying the notes. 

I've heard it said, don't know whether it's true, that the Nicholl doesn't actually favor dramas, it's that the drama is easily the genre most frequently entered in the contest every year. Now are they favoring diversity-themed work? It's my suspicion the entire industry is doing so currently.

Eric - just my observation. But I think it is valid.  If you go through their top five every year - they are heavily ladened with drama/diversity themes. Not saying that is a bad thing - just what it is. Kind of like how a comedy, action or horror movie almost never wins Best Picture.  Put it this way - think what typically gets nominated for best picture - that is the wheelhouse. e.g., If you've written Fast times at Ridgemont High - you ain't doing well in Nicholls.

And yes - I think there is a general diversity shift - Of the last two scripts I had optioned (but of which fell out of option BTW) - I was asked to rewrite it to include a more diverse cast. That may be anecdotal - but the Producers I have spoken too say that is the trend.

This weeks Scriptnotes podcast talks about this.  This is my take not their opinion.

Comedy has many flavours. What my 25YO daughter roars laughing at on TikTok I find as proof that I must have dropped her on her head when she was a baby. Since comedy is cultural (based on age, gender, race) if cannot appeal to a large audience, it will be its natural, even when a broad comedy, appeal to less people than a drama.  The reason is everyone can understand that a child dying is tragic.

If there are five styles of comedy (for argument sake) therefore a comedy can appeal to 20% of the people.  So a drama that appeals to only 50% of the people appeals to twice as many people.

Makes total sense to me, Craig.

I taught classes on film comedy and did some reading in studies of comedy to prep. One book discussed how comedy is grounded in transgression, childishness, and craziness, things that aren't socially acceptable or make us uncomfortable. Somehow it's not dignified or seems "lower" than drama/tragedy. Even the ancient Greeks were onto this. I think comedy is more universal and transcends a lot of cultural differences but somehow it doesn't get the same respect as drama. There are amazing, sharply drawn and original comedies that should have won awards instead of what I view as tiresome and lugubrious (and depressing) dramas. I often mention Albert Brooks and love his films. His comedy about the afterlife, Defending Your Life, is so brilliant but his films are underrated.

Albert Brooks is amazing. Lost in America is one of my favorite movies. I also love Defending Your Life. Comic genious

I wrote an ensemble comedy screenplay and tried some of the usual channels to get reads (none through Stage 32): coverage by a supposedly reputable consultant, paid pitches to producers and production companies, the major contests with notes. In retrospect it was worthless to me and in some cases annoying or insulting. I felt like such a shmuck for wasting hard-earned funds on this quest for...what? Why was I seeking validation or approval? But we're writing scripts for movies to entertain audiences and I think there's a hunger to know if the script lands and someone gets it. That can be encouraging. I traded reviews for a while on a peer review site and some of those comments were deep and actionable. 

But finally it just felt like a dead end. I decided that I really liked the characters and the story was set in a place I knew well. So I decided to rework it as a novel. It's taken a while and not everything survived the conversion but I found a storytelling mode that works for me in the novel. I'm not doing it to create IP, try to sell movie rights, or attract a publisher (I'm self-publishing it). No gatekeepers to approve or deem it worthy. I just love the story and characters and don't want them to vanish without a chance that someone may be entertained and enjoy the take and my style.

I'm working on another comedy script with a few intentions baked in regarding budget, genre, and limited settings to possibly help in getting it produced.

My script "An Incident In A Small Town" which had won Best Script at a previous film festival, was not selected by the Ouchy Film Festival. My script "The Niece" which was a finalist at another previous film festival, was also not selected by the Ouchy Film Festival. However, my script "The Poster Girl Stewardess" has been selected to be a finalist at Ouchy. But "The Poster Girl Stewardess" was not selected by a previous festival.

So, that means, there is no objective standard of judging. If you get selected and progress depends on if the readers at a particular festival like your screenplay or not, a subjective judgement,

Regarding producers asking for more diversity, there's a lot to consider there but another reason is incentives. There's tax breaks available and, in the case of SAG, you can operate under a lower tier with 50% extra budget.

As for Nicholls and drama. It might be fair to say that drama generally requires better execution because there's less opera in the form of stuff like huge action scenes. Drama is a weird genre anyway as technically all scripts are drama at their core.

So, that means, there is no objective standard of judging. If you get selected and progress depends on if the readers at a particular festival like your screenplay or not, a subjective judgement,

There are some objective criteria for sure - but hard to argue that subjective judgment isn't a huge factor. 

As for Nicholls and drama. It might be fair to say that drama generally requires better execution because there's less opera in the form of stuff like huge action scenes.

I'll have to chew on this one for a bit - for me personally, it is a lot harder to get people to laugh than it is to get them to cry.  So, I think comedy is the hardest.  It also doesn't leap off the page like drama does. Do agree with you on drama vs. other genres.

I wrote an ensemble comedy screenplay and tried some of the usual channels to get reads (none through Stage 32): coverage by a supposedly reputable consultant, paid pitches to producers and production companies, the major contests with notes. In retrospect it was worthless to me and in some cases annoying or insulting.

I understand this completely! Fortunately, after messing around with this for a decade I have managed to establish a network of writer friends that are always willing to exchange notes = these have been some of the most valuable notes. 

Kaye K. - That sounds like a neat idea! I've been thinking of turning my first (unlisted) sci-fi script into a book instead some point down the line. It needs a revamp now anyway + wouldn't even have to consider "budget" + could do more world building + maybe x # of people would see intended complete piece non-dependent on "gatekeepers".

Tried writing a book like a decade+ ago and found narrative descriptive-writing (the color of the barn-trim is eggshell white, ect.) both somewhat difficult & quite boring. However I've been reading books lately where like 70+% of that is accomplished through actual dialogue which I've been intrigued by. Tho I haven't quite figured out how to set up a good Libre Office writing template for such just yet...

Good luck on your novel!